I knew it was only a matter of time until Althea Distributor, a rabidly pro-Laminine online vendor, would try to obfuscate the truth by “debunking” my original Laminine review.
A blog post on the weak and low-ranking website attempted to debunk and burn at the stake any and all heretics who dared declare the emperor wore no clothes.
But instead of debunking my original review, Althea Distributor only underscored that it has no evidence to support Laminine’s marketing claims and exposed itself to further legal liability for making false cancer treatment claims (see end of this rebuttal).
The owners of Althea Distributor appear to be located in the Philippines (and are associated with another Filipino dietary supplement called ImuRegen), but their Facebook page lists a residential neighbourhood in Chicago, Illinois, USA with a Bronx, New York phone number.
For a company so hell-bent on “debunking” me, they certainly have a lot of explaining to do.
I can honestly say, I never expected my original Laminine review to gain as much attention as it did. It has generated well over 200 comments, mostly from pro-Laminine distributors.
As a gesture of good faith, I have approved and allowed many of these comments to stand – including some of the more abusive comments that served up vicious personal attacks on me and my professional qualifications.
I often let these comments remain on my blog because I feel they are educational and highlight how rabid and evangelistic multi-level marketers can be when it comes to promoting Laminine. No matter how much level-headed logic is presented, their emotions govern their reason and they simply cannot be snapped out of their cult trance.
In the spirit of fair play, I will now categorically dismantle and expose Althea’s so-called “debunking” below:
Althea Claim 1
Dr. Bill Sukala is a Sydney-based clinical exercise physiologist and self proclaimed “media health expert” in Australia. He writes reviews on common health issues and popular health products. In December 2013, he wrote a well structured blog discrediting the claims of LifePharm Global Network about Laminine Food Supplement.
The article is quite long appearing to be factual but in reality is verbose, stuffed with sentences to make the article rank in google. We will just focus on the summary that he makes on the article, he said –
“Overall, I find Laminine to be nothing more than a simple amino acid, vitamin, and mineral supplement, all of which are readily available in a standard diet. The carefully orchestrated mix of invented jargon and scientific facts stops short of making overtly false claims, but may lead consumers to make faulty extrapolations of efficacy which are not substantiated by independent scientific evidence. In conclusion, I would discourage consumers from purchasing Laminine or recommending it to others.”
My Response 1
It is true that I am a clinical exercise physiologist. This is supported by both my university qualifications and my professional experience.
I am not a “self-proclaimed” media health expert.
It is factual that I am frequently interviewed by health reporters and producers for my views on health, fitness, and nutrition topics.
This is objectively supported by numerous appearances in mainstream media across the world on television programs like Dateline NBC, Good Morning America (USA), Today Tonight (Australia), and Close-Up (New Zealand).
Althea claims my article is verbose and stuffed with sentences to rank in Google.
This is untrue. I wrote the article in my own style, but if that helps the article rank then that is just an added bonus.
The main reason my article ranks is because it is a valuable article that provides the other side of the story, one that is not sponsored by pro-Laminine sites like Althea.
These claims are ironic and hypocritical given that the long tail URL that Althea created for their post uses the words “Laminine bad-experience, and hoax-scam.”
This was obviously a deliberate effort to rank in Google since they know this is what people are typing into search engines.
If you look at the Althea website, you can clearly see for yourself that its unilateral purpose is to sell Laminine – and nothing else. If you look at my website, I have a ton of free information with nothing to buy.
Althea Claim 2
His motive is questionable
With great opportunities to earn a living through social media, blogging has become an important tool to earn a living. The quickest way to become an internet sensation is to publish controversial articles.
Dr. Sukala writes intriguing articles and as a result gets a lot of attention and reader responses. His blog now ranks high in Google search, thanks to hundreds of people that comments on his page. His website also features other food supplements that he criticizes.
My Response 2
Althea, please be specific in your questioning my motive.
What do you mean? Is there a conspiracy? What do you think is my “agenda?”
For full transparency, I do not earn anything that could be remotely classified as “earning a living” from blogging.
It is just a side thing I do aside from my real life career which is being an exercise physiologist.
It is true I have a few bits of Google Adsense on my site, but the amount earned from this all month barely covers costs for the monthly hosting account (hardly the billions of dollars you might be assuming I earn as a shill for big pharma).
It is true that I am critical of other food supplement products, but they are often using misleading marketing tactics.
Provided companies think it’s ok to sell a product based mostly on marketing hype and little to no science, then I will have something to say about it.
My views are free to the public at no charge and, unlike those views provided by Althea, are meant to educate rather than sell a product.
Althea Claim 3
He (Dr Bill) debunks the merit of a product that seems scholarly, spot on but do not give credit to other sources that obviously will negate his observation. His objective is aimed to discredit a product.
It should make you wonder why someone will spend time writing these kinds of articles and taking time to respond to each comments a reader makes in his site. Either Dr. Bill is fighting a cause, or he simply wants to be famous by creating an issue and riding on the popularity of a product, in this case – Laminine Food Supplement.
My Response 3
How is Laminine scholarly? Please cite the studies you claim I am overlooking that “negate” my observations.
Laminine distributors consistently cite “scientific references” to “support” their claims but unfortunately, most of these references have absolutely nothing to do with Laminine the product. (I will categorically address this further on in the article).
My aim was not to “discredit the product.” My aim was to simply provide clear and transparent disclosure about the marketing claims being used to sell Laminine.
If that goes against Laminine distributors’ marketing objectives, then that’s just bad luck.
If I am “fighting a cause” then it’s simply standing up for integrity in health product marketing.
Truth be known, if companies selling health products were forced by law to be 100% truthful in their marketing, they wouldn’t be very successful in selling their wares at all.
If I wanted to make a million dollars, I could start my own supplement company then use every misleading marketing technique in the book – easy money.
It’s not what you tell consumers, it’s what you don’t tell them. Let them draw their own misinformed conclusions and they’ll part with their cash.
As for being “famous,” sorry, I’m not that important and I’m hardly famous.
I simply wrote an article that provided the other side of the story to the Laminine marketing. Nothing more.
Althea Claim 4
He (Dr Bill) marks Laminine’s claims point by point and systematically refutes it by stating that there is no clear evidence to prove Laminine’s claims. While there are clinical studies to prove the claims of Laminine, he points out that these are old and implies it can no longer be trusted.
Just because a clinical study is old does not mean it is no longer relevant or has become false. Conducting a trial is very expensive which is the reason not all companies can afford it. Repeating or spending again for proven results does not make sense. If Laminine has been proven to promote rapid cell healing, these facts remains true.
My Response 4
Here’s an example of Althea making up their own version of the truth.
In their effort to “debunk” me, they have fabricated words and put them in my mouth to confuse readers.
Much like a carnival shell game, they make you keep guessing which shell holds the truth.
This is false. I challenge Althea to provide evidence where I said the “studies were old and can no longer be trusted.” Independent of what year the studies were published, they still have nothing to do with Laminine claims.
The fact remains that Laminine’s main marketing machine is driven by testimonials, not independent scientific evidence.
As I stated above and will expand upon below, many distributors just pull scientific references out of context that have nothing to do with Laminine the product.
This is convenient because most lay people do not have the ability to read clinical research for themselves to be able to see clearly that the studies are unrelated to Laminine.
From my perspective, this is tactic is deceptive and misleading.
But to be fair, I think it’s important to point out that many distributors without any science training simply don’t know any better and are just passing off the same references which were given to them by their upline distributor – much like a game of Chinese whispers where the truth gets lost each time the message is passed to the next person.
Althea Claim 5
Contrary to the doctor’s independent and personal review, Laminine have circumstantial evidences to prove its claims. Consider the following:
1. Registered and approved by FDA with documented clinical studies on YTE and FGF as early as the 1980, 1998, and 2005.
2. Documented clinical studies on cell recovery and cortisol.
3. FGF is now being explored by other pharmaceutical companies.
4. Hundreds of Medical Doctors have already confirmed the unique health benefit of Laminine.
5. Testimonials are present even at Dr. Sukala’s anti-Laminine blog.
6. Laminine was featured on AHS and PDR, approved by its board of medical experts.
My Response 5
Again, here is Althea making an attempt to appeal to emotion rather than empirical evidence.
I like how Althea throws around the words “clinical studies” but does not categorically list out the study titles, authors, and references and the specific Laminine claims to which they each apply.
I challenge Althea to list out the references from 1980, 1998, and 2005 as well as those relating to cell recovery and cortisol.
Fibroblast Growth Factor (FGF) has been bandied around by Laminine distributors as a sciency sounding word but, when you look at the studies that they list related to FGF, you can see that they have nothing to do with Laminine the product.
I also like how Althea which is so quick slam evil pharmaceutical companies yet, in point 3 above, is also very quick to list their research into FGF as a stamp of approval.
So what’s it going to be Althea? Are you with the pharmaceutical companies now? Or are you against them?
Surely whatever research big pharma does with FGF will be biased and meant to produce evil drugs, right?
In point 4 above, Althea conveniently trusts all those drug-pushing doctors who are nothing more than big pharma shills.
So let me see if I get this right. When a health professional agrees with your point of view, then you’re old friends like peas in a pod.
But if a health professional with equivalent credentials speaks out against you, then they must be drawn, quartered, tarred, and feathered?
You can’t have it both ways. What’s it going to be Althea?
I also call your attention to my doctor versus dietitian nutrition knowledge article which addresses the fact that medical doctors don’t always know much about nutrition.
I let the Laminine testimonials stand on my website because I use them as an educational tool to show readers the religious fervor with which many users/distributors approach the Laminine debate.
For full and fair disclosure, a colleague of mine left a dissenting comment on your post which you did not have the courage to publish.
These actions are hypocritical and only reveal your bias and inability to be fair and transparent with your readers.
Althea Claim 6
Yes, Laminine’s feature on AHS and PDR are paid
Laminine was featured (advertorial) in the American Health Journal at PBS and the Physician’s Desk Reference (PDR).*
* The American Health Journal is an award-winning 30-minute health care TV series which has aired continuously for over 25 years. (IMDb)
* PDR provides physicians with the full legally mandated information relevant to writing prescriptions. (Wikipedia)
For both AHJ and PDR, Laminine was featured and accredited for a fee. Laminine underwent scrutiny and was approved by a board of experts, in order to be featured in their organization. Any entity or group in order to survive need funding and this is how they do it, through paid advertorials or listing. Likewise, Dr. Sukala asks for a fee when patients come to his office for consultation.
Just because a company or a professional asks for a fee does not discount their ability to perform. What would be wrong is when a product or a person claims something which cannot be proven by physical evidence or first hand testimonials.
My Response 6
This is another weak Althea argument which serves as an attempt to confuse readers by equating paid advertising with professional services rendered.
It is not a valid comparison and demonstrates an attempt to grab at anything which will divert attention from the fact that neither a paid spot on American Health Journal nor a listing in the PDR constitutes evidence that a product works.
I have addressed both of these issues in my original Laminine review and in the comments section at the end.
Althea Claim 7
Dr. Sukala should have made his assumptions based on the following research:
a. Roberts, Pamela R, et al. Nutrition Vol. 14, No. 3, 1998.
b. Arvanitakis, Constantine. Am. Jour. of Physiology, Vol. 231, No. 1, July 1976.
c. Joseph-Silverstein, Jacquelyn, et al (June 1989) Basic Fibroblast Growth Factor in the Chick Embryo: Immunolocalization to Striated Muscle Cells and Their Precursors. The Journal of Cell Biology, 108: 2459-2466.
d. Hatten, M. E., et al (1988) In Vitro Neurite Extension by Granule Neurons is Dependent upon Astroglial-Derived Fibroblast Growth Factor. Developmental Biology, 125:280-289.
e. Seed, Jennifer, et al (1988) Fibroblast Growth Factor Levels in the Whole Embryo and Limb Bud during Chick Development. Developmental Biology, 128:50-57.
f. Gospodarowicz, D, et al (1986) Molecular and Biological Characterization of Fibroblast Growth Factor, an Angiogenic Factor Which Also Controls the Proliferation and Differentiation of 7. Mesoderm and Neuroectoderm Derived Cells. Cell Differentiation, 19: 1-17.
g. Seed, Jennifer, et al (1988) Fibroblast Growth Factor Levels in the Whole Embryo and Limb Bud during Chick Development. Developmental Biology, 128:50-57.
My Response 7
Please pay close attention here because I will show that ALL of the above scientific references listed by Althea and many other pro-Laminine websites actually have ZERO relation to Laminine as a dietary supplement and do not support their marketing claims.
See my comments below each reference
a. Roberts, Pamela R, et al. Nutrition Vol. 14, No. 3, 1998.
The title of this article is “Dietary Peptides Improve Wound Healing Following Surgery.” It is based on a rat study which administered peptides through small bowel feeding tubes. Click the link above to see for yourself it has nothing to do with Laminine.
b. Arvanitakis, Constantine. Am. Jour. of Physiology, Vol. 231, No. 1, July 1976.
The title of this article is “Digestion of tripeptides and disaccharides: relationship with brush border hydrolases” and has nothing to do with Laminine.
c. Joseph-Silverstein, Jacquelyn, et al (June 1989) Basic Fibroblast Growth Factor in the Chick Embryo: Immunolocalization to Striated Muscle Cells and Their Precursors. The Journal of Cell Biology, 108: 2459-2466.
This article simply discusses the roles of FGF in chick embryos but makes absolutely no reference to the effects of FGF in a dietary supplement like Laminine. Here is a link to the article abstract or the full length PDF where you can verify this for yourself.
d. Hatten, M. E., et al (1988) In Vitro Neurite Extension by Granule Neurons is Dependent upon Astroglial-Derived Fibroblast Growth Factor. Developmental Biology, 125:280-289.
This is a molecular biology article which discusses FGF in isolation and in a completely different context from anything to do with Laminine as an oral dietary supplement. Click here to read the abstract.
e. Seed, Jennifer, et al (1988) Fibroblast Growth Factor Levels in the Whole Embryo and Limb Bud during Chick Development. Developmental Biology, 128:50-57.
This article simply discusses FGF levels in eggs at different stages of development, but it makes no reference to consuming oral FGF and its effects on health (as Laminine promoters claim). Click here to see for yourself yet another example of citing references that have no relation to Laminine as a dietary supplement.
f. Gospodarowicz, D, et al (1986) Molecular and Biological Characterization of Fibroblast Growth Factor, an Angiogenic Factor Which Also Controls the Proliferation and Differentiation of Mesoderm and Neuroectoderm Derived Cells. Cell Differentiation, 19: 1-17.
This article is not actually a research study but is simply a review paper providing a discussion on FGF and its different roles in the body. It has nothing to do with Laminine as a pill. Click here to see the article for yourself.
g. Seed, Jennifer, et al (1988) Fibroblast Growth Factor Levels in the Whole Embryo and Limb Bud during Chick Development. Developmental Biology, 128:50-57.
Althea got a bit lazy here and pasted the same article as in reference e. I therefore will not repeat myself.
Even more astonishing is that each of these references were simply copied verbatim from the PDR listing, further showing that the PDR does not properly vet the information they publish in their book or website.
So we now have a massive case of an army of misinformed Laminine distributors misinforming other would-be Laminine distributors.
In short, you are being fooled into thinking that these research papers are evidence that oral Laminine supplements are supported by scientific evidence but in reality it is just more marketing hocus pocus meant to mislead you.
Althea, why don’t you just give up on claiming you have scientific evidence to support all Laminine claims and just stick to your testimonials?
Then we could just agree to disagree and I wouldn’t have to waste my time chasing down all these references only prove they have nothing to do with Laminine.
Althea Claim 8
FibroBlast Growth Factor (FGF2) in the Fertilized Avian Egg Extract (FAEE) of Laminine plays an important role in the regulation of cell survival, cell division, angiogenesis, cell differentiation and cell migration. Functions as potent mitogen in vitro.*
* References:
Hirohashi S.Jpn. J. Cancer Res. 82:1263-1270(1991) [PubMed] [Europe PMC] [Abstract]
Cited for: PROTEIN SEQUENCE OF 94-107 AND 162-173, FUNCTION, BIOPHYSICOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES, TISSUE SPECIFICITY.
“Receptor specificity of the fibroblast growth factor family.”
Ornitz D.M., Xu J., Colvin J.S., McEwen D.G., MacArthur C.A., Coulier F., Gao G., Goldfarb M.
J. Biol. Chem. 271:15292-15297(1996) [PubMed] [Europe PMC] [Abstract]
Cited for: INTERACTION WITH FGFR1; FGFR2; FGFR3 AND FGFR4, FUNCTION IN CELL PROLIFERATION.
FGFs are key players in the processes of proliferation and differentiation of wide variety of cells and tissues.*
* Reference: Wikipedia on FGF2 on humans
My Response 8
As in response 7, the references above are just more of the same: references that are unrelated to Laminine as a dietary supplement.
To leave this in no uncertain terms, fibroblast growth factor is real and, yes, there are a lot of journal articles on this topic, but unfortunately for Laminine distributors, these studies are not directly pertinent to Laminine and do not constitute evidence.
To put this into perspective, I’ll use telomerase as an example.
There are plenty of journal articles about telomerase, but you don’t find any of them spouting off the benefits of oral telomerase supplements for improved health.
Telomerase might be at the scene of the crime, but it doesn’t make it responsible for the offence.
Althea Claim 9
Dr. Sukala dismisses Laminine’s ingredient as ordinary which is entirely false
It is true that you can get Amino Acids from food. However in order to get the right amount, you need a supplement. A supplement will give you the finest quality of Amino Acids and you don’t need to eat in bulk or take red meat into your body.
Only Laminine to date contains Fertilized Avian Egg Extract (FAEE), a proprietary formula. This means that LifePharm Global Network has exclusive rights to the unique blend of ingredients that are combined to become Laminine (OPT-9 formula). You cannot find elsewhere a supplement that contains FibroBlast Growth Factor (FGF) or FAEE.
My Response 9
Althea, you are making claims here that you cannot substantiate.
I challenge you to provide independent evidence (not from your usual sales script or irrelevant journal articles that you plug on your website) that “you need a supplement.”
You are merely stating your opinion that “a supplement will give you the finest quality of amino acids.”
Your comments about FAEE, proprietary formula, and unique blends of ingredients are nothing more than sales copy referencing FGF which, let’s be honest, you were unable to support with your above list of irrelevant journal articles.
Althea Claim 10
Dr. Sukala stated himself that he has not tried Laminine Food Supplement yet
In one of the comments on the article page of Dr. Sukala, readers asks if he has tried Laminine, his answer was a resounding no. We wanted to screenshot the post but when we came back to the site, the comment was removed. You can still see traces of readers asking if he has tried Laminine, but you will no longer see a categorical ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ answer from Dr. Sukala.
My Response 10
Althea, you’re not a very astute reader of my blog. Please re-read my article again (or perhaps for the first time) and you will see my comments to this effect just above the paragraph on the American Health Journal.
Althea Claim 11
Apparently, Dr. Sukala would be willing to spend thousands of dollars for chemical analysis of Laminine
Dr. Sukala stated “I am currently investigating labs which can do a full chemical analysis on the product to see what its specific constituents are, if it is pure egg protein, or if it is, perhaps, adulterated with something else.” Why would a blogger spend thousands of dollars just to disprove something. Either someone will finance this investigation or he’s just bluffing.
My Response 11
I looked at a number of labs here in Australia to do a chemical analysis on Laminine but unfortunately it was cost prohibitive.
Earlier in your “debunking” of me, you attempted to make it look like I was earning a living at “blogging” but I can assure you, on a blogger’s salary of $20 or $30 per month, no lab is willing to run full analyses for peanuts.
And no, I have no other financiers who are willing to “invest” in a chemical analysis of Laminine.
Althea Claim 12
For our part, we are writing this article in defense of Laminine because of two things: We know it works and we are selling the product to earn. We need to make a statement.
It all boils down to testimonies
Dr. Bill insist that Laminine testimonies cannot be trusted, well he has to deal with hundreds if not thousands of testimonies. When asked by one reader if Dr. Bill have tried Laminine, his answer was “No”.
My Response 12
You don’t “know” the product works.
You “believe” the product works. It is your faith in the product more than any objective evidence supporting the product.
I clearly demonstrated above that your references are irrelevant (the same ones in the PDR), so your only refuge is simply choosing to believe the product works.
The mind is a very powerful tool and if you believe something enough then it becomes your truth.
I make no attempt to convince you because I know this is something you’re selling to make a buck, but for those who have not drunk the Kool-Aid yet, they still have an opportunity to look at all the evidence and make a rational-minded decision.
Althea Claim 13
The bombshell: Laminine is sold through MLM, and it’s an inconvenient truth for some people
Dr. Sukala states “I won’t say that Laminine is an MLM scam, but I do think you should do your homework before investing in any MLM “business opportunity.” For more information on whether joining a multi-level marketing company is right for you, visit: https://www.mlmwatch.org”
If he says that Laminine is not an MLM scam, what is the point of further saying “you should do your homework before investing in any MLM business opportunity”, unless you want to create an issue about Laminine being sold as MLM.
Laminine is not an advocacy, it is a business and just because it’s sold though MLM does not make it any less effective. Any smart company would want to market their product well and hype it – does this mean that the product is less effective? It’s a strategy that makes a product become popular in a short period of time.
Laminine is sold through MLM, and it’s an inconvenient truth for Dr. Sukala which is likely the reason he wrote the article, among his other hidden agenda. MLM stands for Multi-Level Marketing, also known as Networking. It is a marketing strategy similar to other MLM companies such as Amway.
MLM is a great marketing tool to make a product popular. Laminine was launched in 2011 and by the end of 2014, it nearly has 9 Million users around the world.
My Response 13
Althea, you’re really grabbing for anything you can to try and “debunk” me. You keep referring to my “hidden agenda.” Please, enlighten me as to what my hidden agenda is because I can assure you it’s so hidden that not even I know what my hidden agenda is.
I simply state that Laminine is not an MLM scam in the context that it is technically not illegal.
However, as I have highlighted in my original review, I believe the marketing is indeed very misleading and this raises ethical concerns.
And this is further underscored by your “debunking” of me in which you cite a whole list of journal articles which have absolutely nothing to do with Laminine.
Go ahead and explain my readers how this is not misleading.
I also find it humorous that you claim “any smart company would want to market their product well and hype it.”
In this case, as I have clearly laid out my case, you need to hype your product because you don’t have any significant body of independent scientific evidence to support your marketing claims.
The bottom line is that I don’t care that Laminine is a multi-level marketing company.
What I care about is that consumers are being misled into buying a product that is being sold using deceptive marketing tactics.
Althea Distributor Claims Laminine Can Cure Cancer
As you can in the screenshot from the Althea website, the distributor is so intent on promoting Laminine that he is willing to tell a desperate woman that her mother can take Laminine for her cancer.
He even goes so far as to provide information on dosing “if the cancer in the nose is not too big.”
Armed only with your own personal testimonials, the Laminine sales copy, and no medical training, you, Althea, are practicing medicine without a license – and this is illegal in all 50 US states the last I checked.
You can go ahead and delete these comments, but it’s ok. I have the screenshots for safe keeping in case the authorities would like to have a look at them.
Conspiracy: Laminine is a Threat To the Drug Manufacturers?
In the screenshot below, you can see Althea calls Laminine’s popularity a threat to the drug manufacturers.
But above in his “debunking” of me, he tries to validate Laminine by saying FGF is now being explored by pharmaceutical (i.e., drug) companies.
So are the drug companies your friends or your enemies?
For the record, I have no kindling love affair with the drug companies and recommend healthy lifestyle changes to all my clients (i.e., healthy eating, exercise, stress management etc). So don’t try to paint me with the big pharma brush.
In the comments below, the first two (in my humble opinion) look like fake comments posted by the Althea website administrators.
They just seem to be parroting back what is in the article. In all fairness, they might be real, but I’m not overly convinced.
It’s the same old story with “woo” sellers. They all use “research” papers that have nothing to do with the actual product to add any credibility to the message they are trying to sell to people. It actually shows how scientifically illiterate they actually are.
I also find it unnerving that they get so upset about a review, so much so, they get abusive. Why must people get abusive? Is there something you don’t want people to find out?
When will people learn you don’t need bogus supplements to be healthy. Eat whole nutritious foods, enough to meet your energy needs and exercise. It’s not rocket science, but it’s certainly better than Laminine.
Thanks for leaving a comment Gabrielle, I couldn’t agree more. They do get abusive and even appear to take it personally. It is what I like to call “faith-based nutrition.” For many years, many multi-level marketing companies have used the “help-people-while-you-make-money” mantra to rope in the masses to become distributors. The power of suggestion is very powerful and many of these people genuinely believe what they are pushing. Any threat to their beliefs is a personal attack on their individual person.
I also agree that many of these distributors are hopelessly scientifically illiterate and, as this example shows, they are blindly promoting these research studies as evidence that FGF in supplement form (as in Laminine) has an effect when taken orally. As I point out in my rebuttal, you can see that they have just blindly done a cut and paste of the references from Laminine’s listing in the Physician’s Desk Reference (PDR). The PDR has a lot to answer for as well, given they likely did not check the listed Laminine references to see if they had anything to do with their marketing claims.
It goes to show you that profit prevails over ethics in the health industry. It’s been this way for a long time and I don’t see it improving any time soon. Very sad.
Hi Bill, Just thought I would add my 2 bob’s worth in all this. Firstly, I don’t sell the stuff, nor ever intend to. And yes, company’s will tell you anything to get your business!! The vitamin industry is a billion dollar one. I am into certain things myself on a daily basis, vinegar and honey in the mornings, only drink filtered water through my reverse osmosis machine, Cellfood droplets (and I don’t sell that stuff either) throughout the day, and fast 2 days a week at 600 calories (Fast and Feast diet), bootcamp 3 days a week, don’t smoke, very light on the alcohol intake per week, etc, etc, etc and I am 55 years of age. I AM having a few joint issues of late, and not sleeping well.
I was talking to a mate the other day and he mentioned this stuff called Laminine that he was taking and said he felt so much better! And yes, I HAVE heard of the “Placebo” effect. He said his sister has a dog, not that old, but was basically buggered from early stages of arthritis, could not walk more then 30 metres at a time, the sister sourced the product Laminine from the states several years ago, and started giving the dog a few tables a day, now the dog walks 5 miles with no problems! That’s what sealed the deal with my friend in starting to take the stuff himself, as he said, mate, the dog doesn’t bulls*#t …………………………….
Hi Gordie, thanks for the dog ? tale and the good laugh! Keep smiling amigo.
Grade A Woo! Not to mention the willingness to prescribe this tripe for stage 4 cancer – just ludicrous.
Thanks for your comment Lana. What I find very disconcerting in this case is that you have Laminine distributors with no science training who have read the company-provided sales script and accepted that as the gospel, and who are then going out and saying it will cure cancer. It really is insidious and only goes to show how ignorant distributors are willing to be in order to make a sale. Very sad.
I read the “debunking” of Dr. Sukala’s critique of Laminine and while it was well written, what I would have liked to have seen was the distributors take on the Laminine research. It would have been nice to see the distributor discuss the where they believe Dr. Sukala went wrong with his interpretation of the Laminine research, so that Dr. Sukala could respond. Instead, what I saw was several areas where the distributor attempted to attack Dr. Sukalas credibility. That’s unfortunate.
The idea that research costs money has been brought up by others on my own website. Honestly, I just don’t buy that argument. It would be pretty inexpensive to give a supplement to a grad student and let that student perform an experiment and get it published in a peer-reviewed journal. Doing it this way, the company would only be out the cost of the product. The grad student and university do all the work.
Related to this, I read the comments on the altheadistributor website and noticed that the distributor commented on 10/6/14 that Laminine is being regularly taken by “10 million individual users around the world.” This says to me that the Laminine company can afford to do research.
I will be eagerly watching to see if the Althea distributor responds to Dr. Sukalas well thought out rebuttal.
Dear Dr. Sukala, we have just come across this blog. Although we have dissenting opinions, this will actually help us to further improve how we communicate the product to our customers. We do apologize if in case our article has somewhat given a bad light towards your other blog. I’m sure you understand that given your stand on the product, we need to make a statement that counters it. Your blog has challenged us to add better references which admittedly, is limited to what is shared to us by our parent company, LPGN, which is not to say is inadequate. To date, the best reference we can provide is what was published by PDR 2014 which includes studies on cortisol, faster wound healing et al. We do challenge you to express your medical opinion PDR. Best regards! – Bea
Dear Bea, Thank you for stopping by to leave a comment. If you actually stop for a minute, have a moment of clarity, and look at the LPGN’s hot air marketing for what it is, you will see that their list of “references” do not support Laminine’s marketing claims at all. This is not my opinion. It is a fact.
Yes, FGF is actually a real thing, but there is no scientific evidence that I’m aware of that demonstrates that FGF in supplement form exerts any of the benefits Laminine says it does. If you actually have published evidence from a real medical journal (not some flim flam paid predatory Bangladeshi journal) that supplemental FGF has any impact on health, please bring it to my attention.
Your Althea Distributor “debunking” of my original article is full of deceptive sleights of hand that it astonishes me that anyone would even believe it. Your references, including those in the PDR, still do not support Laminine’s marketing claims. They are simply plopped in place to fool less discerning individuals into thinking Laminine has evidence when it does not.
The bottom line is this:
1) You and your distributors are incapable of having a debate based on evidence because the “evidence” you cite that was no doubt handed down to you by the LPGN marketing machine has nothing to do with Laminine supplements.
2) You are only able to cite testimonials which, as I’ve said numerous times, do not separate cause and effect from coincidence. If someone started taking Laminine and then got on a health kick which included diet and exercise, sure they’re going to lose weight and feel better, but you cannot reliably say it was due ONLY to Laminine.
3) As for the PDR studies you mention, please go back and read my original Laminine article in its entirety. I point out that these are not complete studies and still have a long ways to go before they can hold up to any legitimate scientific scrutiny.
4) You are left to try and slander my name and credentials with assumptions, all of which I have addressed in my article.
Please read my article again (or for the first time from top to bottom). You still have a lot of explaining to do and a lot of cleaning up the false and misleading nonsense in your so-called “debunking.”
Kind regards
Loved the read. I am a science nerd, my job is science and technology, so whilst I have an open scientific mind, I need to know the why’s. I really dislike these MLM companies and the so called cringeworthy Mumpreneurs that tag along with it ….I still want to fry my own eyeballs when I hear that word and feel quite insulted as a female professional that they seem to associate themselves as being skilled professionals). Anyway, onto Laminine, I tried it, did nothing for me at all, looked at the ingredients and roared laughing at 9 day old avian egg ((okay what birds eggs am I swallowing at 9 day old) and marine protein (marine what? what am I swallowing?). I do have 2 months worth left and have been suffering from a bit of anxiety of late, so think I might just swallow some of that vague marine protein and 9 day old unknown bird egg (really hope it isn’t a poor rare owl) and see if my anxiety improves. I shall pop back and let you know if I become a cool, laid back goddess of peace. Thanks for the read, sadly health in all areas seems to have become rife with money grabbers, self confessed experts and people with so many different beliefs and opinions they are trying to make money from, some loving carbs, others hating, some loving juicing, others hating, Personal Trainers acting like experts they don’t have the chops to claim, fitness models turning health and fitness into objectification and money making, then the ones who claim to be able to cure the big scary C, prevent it by just taking this pill, or lose fat. It is all going crazy.
Dear Amanda,
I loved this comment! It somehow ended up in my spam bin, but I rescued it (and I’m glad I did!). You make a LOT of great points and have hit on all my pet peeves. The internet and social media have spawned a tidal wave of misinformation, half-baked theories, health “experts” who did an online certificate, and all other types and assortments of woo!
I have to tell you, I absolutely howled laughing where you wrote: “really hope it isn’t a poor rare owl” in reference to what kinds of eggs. That IS a good question though! Exactly what KINDS of eggs are we talking about here?
Keep me posted and let me know if/when you turn into a goddess of peace!
Warm regards,
Bill
While I did not read everything you wrote, it seems your articles are about Laminine’s marketing and no proof of the product working. I was wondering if you have any science on Laminine not working? Otherwise it is all just opinion…
Hi Tony,
Please read my article here: https://drbillsukala.com/lifepharm-globals-laminine-independent-review-of-marketing-claims/
If you “want” to believe it works, then it works. If you choose to look at the facts, then you might come to a different conclusion.
In the spirit of fair media and transparency, we have included a direct link to this article to our page in question, so that readers can access both reviews. Should there be a misinformation (from LPGN), we will gladly correct the error provided by other legitimate sources or from Dr. Sukala himself.
Thank you for your comment and for being willing to publish my rebuttal on your article. I should point out that comments I’ve left on your article in the past, and those comments by colleagues, were not approved by your website moderators.
You are also still citing research which has absolutely nothing to do with your product and does not support marketing claims. If you were interested in selling your products ethically, you would remove these references and let people know the truth. In my career, I have seen far too many marketers with little to no health science training grabbing onto anything that looks “sciency” for the purpose of selling products. In my opinion, that appears to be the case with Laminine. This is unfortunate for the many people out there who are looking for answers and they are met with all the confusing mumbo jumbo provided by supplement marketers.
On a positive note, Laminine has officially run its marketing cycle (pretty much as I expected it would) so I don’t know how much of a lucrative business opportunity it would be now. Althea, it might be time for you to jump ship on Laminine and find another golden goose. Check out these two screen shots from Google Trends as evidence of search popularity. Laminine looks pretty much dead in the Philippines (where you’re located) and the United States.
Happy camping!
Hi Bill,
A very interesting read, i originally arrived here while looking into the Pyrole test my Doctor (registered MD) ordered and subsequent high result, culminating in yet another compounding script. My search led me to read your article on Pyroles, Lamanine and others. By now my “Spider Senses” were tingling. I came across this company Cerule.com whilst looking into what was in my “Pyrole Primer- undermethylator” script, and tried to find their scientific research references for “Stem enhance” Ultra, have you had any experience with this companies products or marketing model.
Hi Reggie
Anything to do with nutrition and multilevel marketing is notoriously deceptive and I generally urge people to stay away from that business model. MLM is also notorious for taking otherwise underwhelming products and blowing them out of proportion in their marketing. I can look back to MLM companies in the 1980s making the same or similar claims to today. They didn’t work then and they’re not going to work now. If people want to believe in unicorns then that’s their prerogative, but will just have to learn the lessons the hard way. Buyer beware my friend. Kind regards
Thanks for the truth and helping me make an informed decision. Many companies are pushing laminine for a miracle pet cure taking advantage of peoples willingness to do anything for their beloved pets.
I provided your articles to my veterinarian and he felt they were accurate and inforative.
Thanks Scott. Do glad to hear you found the articles to be helpful. Yes, there are lots of hokey products out there using deceptive marketing and from what I can see, this is a shining example. Cheers
Laminine is dead in the Philippines
Laminine is dead in the United States
These headlines on Google have been redirected as well …
Strange and long time.
Now they are in Europe …